The Families and Grove Street Conspiracies and Fan Theories – Akusaa.com discuss Anime, Gaming, and misc things

The Green That Faded: Unraveling the Mysteries of The Families and Grove Street Across the GTA Series

They wear green, claim the western edges of South Los Santos, and have been the anchor of the Grand Theft Auto series’ most personal stories. The Families—and specifically the Grove Street Families (GSF)—represent more than just a gang; they are the embodiment of loyalty, community, and the struggle against forces that seek to destroy both. From their rise in the crack-addled streets of 1992 to their mythologized status in the HD Universe, the story of the Families is one of triumph, tragedy, and enduring mystery. Yet beneath the green bandanas and the iconic cul-de-sac lies a labyrinth of unanswered questions. Who were the fallen OGs? What really happened to the set after CJ’s time? And are the echoes of Grove Street in GTA V more than just nostalgia? Here are the most compelling fan theories and conspiracies about The Families and the Grove Street Families across the Grand Theft Auto series.

Note: This is only fan conspirated theories, not neccessary the real, official story. For the newbie, it is not advisable to read this page, but get a lot of experience with the games first.

I. The Original Name Mystery: Whatever Happened to the Orange Grove Families?

Long before Carl Johnson ever set foot in Los Santos, the gang had a different identity—one that still haunts the game’s code and environment.

The Beta Clues

Throughout Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, sharp-eyed players have noticed graffiti tags reading “OGF” scattered across Los Santos. These three letters have fueled one of the most persistent theories about the gang’s development history: the Grove Street Families were originally called the Orange Grove Families.

The evidence extends beyond graffiti. CJ can purchase tattoos bearing the Orange Grove Families name, and during combat, he will occasionally shout phrases referencing this original identity. This suggests that late in development, Rockstar made a significant change—renaming the gang but leaving remnants throughout the game world.

The Reason for Change

Why the switch from Orange Grove to Grove Street? Some theorists speculate that “Orange Grove” sounded too peaceful, too agricultural for a hardcore street gang. Others suggest legal concerns—perhaps there was a real-world organization with a similar name. The most compelling theory points to branding: “Grove Street” is punchier, more iconic, and directly ties the gang to its physical headquarters—the cul-de-sac that would become one of gaming’s most famous locations.

The Lingering Presence

Despite the name change, “OGF” remains throughout San Andreas—a ghost from an earlier version of the game, a piece of development history frozen in code. For myth-hunters, these remnants are treasured artifacts, proof that the Los Santos we know was built on layers of decisions, changes, and abandoned concepts.

II. The Fallen Leaders: Who Were Little Devil, Big Devil, and Tony?

The history of the Grove Street Families is marked by loss—losses that occurred before CJ ever returned from Liberty City. Throughout San Andreas, characters reference fallen OGs whose stories are never fully told.

The Names of the Dead

Sweet mentions three specific individuals who died during CJ’s five-year absence: Little Devil, Big Devil, and Tony. These weren’t random gang members—they were high-ranking OGs, leaders whose deaths fundamentally weakened the Grove Street Families. Their loss created a power vacuum, demoralized the remaining members, and left the gang vulnerable to the Ballas’ expansion.

The Circumstances of Their Deaths

The game never explains how these three OGs died. Some theorists propose they were killed in the same gang war that claimed Brian Johnson, CJ’s younger brother. Others suggest they were victims of the crack epidemic—either killed in drug-related violence or consumed by addiction themselves. A darker theory posits that their deaths weren’t accidents but assassinations—part of a coordinated campaign by the Ballas and their allies to decapitate Grove Street’s leadership.

The “Big Devil” Mention in GTA V

Intriguingly, Grand Theft Auto V contains a reference that may connect to this lost history. During a random event, a character mentions “Big Devil” in passing—a name that would mean nothing to most players but sends chills through those familiar with San Andreas lore. Is this a coincidence, or proof that the HD Universe remembers what the 3D Universe lost?

The Unmarked Graves

None of these fallen OGs have graves that players can visit—unlike Beverly Johnson, whose funeral drives the game’s opening. This absence is itself a mystery. Were they buried in unmarked plots? Were their bodies never recovered? Or does the game’s silence about their final resting places reflect a deeper truth about gang life: that most deaths leave no monuments, only gaps where people used to be?

III. The Great Fracture: What Split the Grove Street Families?

One of the most significant events in Grove Street history—the splintering of the Families into warring sets—is referenced but never fully explained.

The Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard Schism

At some point during CJ’s five years in Liberty City, two major sets broke away from the Grove Street Families: the Temple Drive Families and the Seville Boulevard Families. These weren’t minor factions—they controlled significant territory and, by 1992, were actively hostile to their former allies. When Sweet visits his girlfriend in Seville, he’s ambushed by Seville Boulevard members, forcing CJ to rescue him in a confrontation that Sweet himself laments as “green-on-green” violence.

The Drug Debate Theory

The most compelling explanation for this fracture involves the crack epidemic. Sweet’s adamant opposition to drug dealing—his insistence that “no crack ever made a gang tight”—put Grove Street at odds with members who saw the drug trade as the only path to power and wealth. The Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard sets may have broken away specifically to pursue drug profits without Sweet’s moral restrictions.

Big Smoke himself articulates this tension in the San Andreas introduction video: “But our principles are making us suckers, man. Every day, Ballas getting stronger, and you and I get weaker. You and I get poorer, man”. If Smoke felt this way, others surely did too—and some may have acted on those feelings, leaving Grove Street to join or form sets willing to do what Sweet wouldn’t.

The Big Smoke Conspiracy

A darker theory implicates Big Smoke in the fracture. Perhaps Smoke, already planning his betrayal, deliberately cultivated dissension within the ranks. By encouraging the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard sets to break away, he weakened Grove Street while maintaining his own position—making the gang more vulnerable to the alliance he was building with the Ballas and C.R.A.S.H.

The B Dup and Big Bear Warning

The fates of B Dup and Big Bear serve as cautionary tales about what happened to members who stayed but succumbed to addiction. By the time CJ returns, B Dup has abandoned the gang entirely, living as a crack addict in a dilapidated house, while Big Bear is reduced to a hollow shell of his former self. These weren’t just casualties—they were warnings about what the drug trade did to communities, and evidence of how far Grove Street had fallen.

IV. The Great Silence: Whatever Happened to the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard Sets?

After CJ reunites the Families and eliminates the common enemy of the Ballas, the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard sets effectively disappear from the narrative. Their absence has fueled extensive speculation.

The Reunification Theory

The most straightforward explanation is that these sets simply rejoined the unified Grove Street Families. After witnessing CJ’s success against the Ballas and the destruction of Big Smoke’s crack empire, the leaders of the breakaway factions recognized that unity was stronger than division. The “green-on-green” violence that Sweet lamented came to an end, and the Families were whole again.

The Extermination Theory

A darker possibility is that the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard sets were destroyed—either by the Ballas during their period of dominance, or by CJ himself in the gang wars that followed. The game allows players to attack any gang territory, including areas that were once Families sets. Some players chose to eliminate these former allies entirely, and the game accommodates that choice.

The HD Universe Mystery

By the time of Grand Theft Auto V, neither the Temple Drive nor Seville Boulevard sets are mentioned. The Families in the HD Universe consist of different sets entirely: Chamberlain Gangster Families (CGF), Forum Drive Families (FDF), Carson Avenue Families (CAF), and Davis Neighborhood Families (DNF). The Grove Street Families themselves are a “formerly” set, disbanded and mythologized.

What happened to the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard names? Did they evolve into the sets we see in GTA V? Were they absorbed? Destroyed? Forgotten? The silence is deafening.

V. The Lost Sets: Understanding the HD Universe Families

The Families of GTA V and GTA Online are far more complex than their 3D Universe predecessors—a fact that has generated numerous theories about their origins and relationships.

The Five Known Sets

According to GTA V lore, there are at least five distinct sets of the Families in the HD Universe :

Chamberlain Gangster Families (CGF) : The largest set, controlling Chamberlain Hills. Based on the Rollin’ 60s Neighborhood Crips. Known as “The Hills,” “Killer Hills,” and the “26 Set”.
Forum Drive Families (FDF) : The set founded by Lamar Davis and Franklin Clinton, known as the “Forum Gangsters” or the “88 Set.” Their territory is Forum Drive and surrounding areas of Strawberry.
Carson Avenue Families (CAF) : A set hostile to the Chamberlain Gangsters, led by a figure known only as “The Boss.” Possibly based on the Eight Tray Gangster Crips.
Davis Neighborhood Families (DNF) : Controlling northwest Davis, at war with the East Side Ballas. Known as “Dirty Davis Devils” or “Davis Devils.” Vernon is the only named member.
Grove Street Families (GSF) : The legendary set of the 1990s, now disbanded. Their territory was Grove Street and the greater Davis area.

The Internal Hostility Mystery

One of the most intriguing details about the HD Universe Families is the hostility between sets. The Carson Avenue Families are explicitly described as “hostile to the Chamberlain Gangsters and presumably other sets”. This internal conflict echoes the “green-on-green” violence that plagued the 3D Universe Families—suggesting that the lessons of the past were never fully learned.

Why would sets of the same gang fight each other? The theory points to territory, resources, and the absence of a unifying figure like Sweet or CJ. Without strong leadership to enforce unity, the Families fragment into competing factions—weakening themselves against common enemies like the Ballas.

The Boss of Carson Avenue

The existence of a leader known only as “The Boss” leading the Carson Avenue Families is itself a mystery. Who is this figure? Why is their identity hidden? Some theorists propose that “The Boss” could be a former Grove Street OG—perhaps one of the members who left the gang and became wealthy, now using their resources to control a set from behind the scenes. Others suggest “The Boss” is simply a title, not an individual—a way of referring to the set’s leadership collectively.

VI. The Legend and the Myth: Grove Street in the HD Universe

Perhaps the most poignant mystery surrounding the Families is the status of Grove Street itself in Grand Theft Auto V and GTA Online.

The Ballas Occupation

In the HD Universe, Grove Street is no longer Families territory. The cul-de-sac that once housed CJ, Sweet, Kendl, and their mother is now controlled by the Original Covenant Ballas. Players visiting the street in 2013 will find Ballas members hanging around, Ballas graffiti on the walls, and the green of Grove Street replaced by purple.

How did this happen? According to Lamar Davis during the mission “Hood Safari,” the Grove Street Families set simply disbanded. Members either died or “moved on with their lives”. The implication is that the OGs—the leaders who made Grove Street legendary—pursued legitimate paths, became successful, and left the gang life behind. The Ballas, ever opportunistic, moved into the vacuum.

The Wealthy OGs Theory

Lamar’s suggestion that many Grove Street OGs “became wealthy CEOs” is one of the most intriguing details in GTA V lore. If true, it means CJ’s story didn’t end in tragedy—it ended in triumph. The gang that fought against the crack epidemic, survived betrayal, and reclaimed its territory ultimately transcended its circumstances. Its leaders became exactly what the system said they couldn’t: successful, legitimate members of society.

This theory finds support in the game’s overall themes. GTA V is, in many ways, about the impossibility of escaping the criminal life—Michael, Trevor, and Franklin all find themselves dragged back into violence despite their attempts to go straight. The Grove Street OGs, by contrast, apparently succeeded. They got out. They made it.

Jimmy De Santa’s Question

During a friendship activity with Franklin, Jimmy De Santa asks whether Franklin is from the Grove Street Families or whether the gang is “a myth”. This question is telling: by 2013, Grove Street has achieved legendary status. Younger residents of Los Santos aren’t sure if it ever really existed.

Franklin’s response—that it’s not a myth, and that the set was active in the early nineties—confirms the historical reality while emphasizing its distance from the present. Grove Street exists now only in memory, in graffiti, in the stories old gangsters tell.

VII. The Ghosts of Grove Street: Easter Eggs and Apparitions

Despite the disbanding of the Grove Street Families, their presence haunts Grand Theft Auto V through numerous Easter eggs and subtle references.

The Bike Riders

During the mission “Hood Safari,” as Franklin and Lamar approach Grove Street, three men on bicycles can be seen riding away. The man in front wears clothing similar to Carl Johnson’s default outfit from San Andreas. This is a deliberate recreation of the opening mission “Sweet & Kendl,” where CJ, Sweet, Smoke, and Ryder escape the Ballas on BMX bikes.

For players who remember San Andreas, this moment is electric—a ghost from the past, glimpsed for just a moment before disappearing. The implication is beautiful and heartbreaking: somewhere in Los Santos, CJ still rides.

The Phone Conversations

Pedestrians in Chamberlain Hills can occasionally be heard saying “What’s good, CJ?” into their phones. This isn’t just a random name—it’s a direct reference to Carl Johnson, the man who once made Grove Street matter.

Some Families members also mention “OG Johnson” in their dialogue. The surname is unmistakable—this is a reference to the Johnson family, to Sweet and Carl and the legacy they left behind.

The Lookalikes

Though extremely rare, players can encounter Families members who bear striking resemblances to San Andreas characters. Chamberlain Gangster members may resemble CJ; Carson Avenue members may look like Ryder or Sweet. These three particular members appear in “Hood Safari,” as if the developers wanted to ensure that observant players would spot them.

Are these meant to be the actual characters, aged and moved on? Or are they simply lookalikes—coincidences that remind us of who once ruled these streets? The game never says, leaving the interpretation to players.

The Graffiti Memorial

In GTA Online, the exterior of Benny’s Original Motor Works features a mural that includes Grove Street Families graffiti from San Andreas. This isn’t just decoration—it’s a memorial, a reminder of the gang that once was, preserved on the wall of a business that represents the legitimate success some OGs achieved.

The Outfit Mismatch

The Xbox Live Avatars gang outfit is oddly called the “Grove Street Families Outfit,” despite Grove Street not being Families territory in the HD Universe. This is either a mistake or a deliberate choice—a way of keeping the name alive even when the place itself has changed.

VIII. The Prince of Bel-Air Theory: CJ’s Ultimate Fate

The ultimate fate of Carl Johnson himself remains one of the most debated topics in Grand Theft Auto fandom.

The Wealthy CEO Evidence

If Lamar’s statement about Grove Street OGs becoming wealthy CEOs is accurate, then CJ likely followed this path. By the end of San Andreas, CJ had multiple legitimate income streams: co-ownership of the Four Dragons Casino in Las Venturas, ownership of a garage in San Fierro, and management of Madd Dogg’s recording career. He was already on the path to legitimacy—a path that could easily lead to legitimate wealth.

The “RIP” Graffiti

The graffiti in GTA IV that lists 3D Universe protagonists with “RIP” next to their names includes Carl Johnson. While Rockstar has stated this was a “little joke for fans” marking the end of the 3D Universe rather than a canonical statement about character deaths, the ambiguity remains. In the hearts of players, CJ lives—but in the cold logic of canon, his fate is unknown.

The Cousin Connection

Franklin Clinton’s voice actor, Shawn Fonteno, is the cousin of Young Maylay, who voiced CJ. This real-world connection has fueled endless speculation about whether the characters themselves might be related. Some fans have proposed that Franklin could be CJ’s son, though the separate universes make this impossible in strict canon.

The Unmarked Grave Hoax

Internet rumors about being able to visit CJ’s grave in GTA V at 3 AM and summon his ghost have been thoroughly debunked. Yet the persistence of these rumors speaks to something real: players want CJ to have a monument, a place they can visit, a way of keeping his memory alive. The absence of such a place in the game world is itself a statement—in Los Santos, most deaths leave no markers.

The Legend Status

Ultimately, CJ’s fate may be less important than his legacy. In the HD Universe, he is a legend—a figure from the early nineties whose story is still told, whose name is still spoken, whose gang is still remembered. Whether he’s alive or dead, rich or poor, in Los Santos or elsewhere, CJ has achieved something rare: immortality. As long as players visit Grove Street, as long as they hear “What’s good, CJ?” from passing pedestrians, Carl Johnson lives.

IX. The Symbolism of Green: Why Sports Teams Matter

One of the most distinctive features of the Families in GTA V is their connection to local sports teams—a detail that adds depth to their identity.

The Corkers and the Feud

The Families’ signature green attire comes primarily from their support of the Los Santos Corkers Baseball Team and the Feud Baseball Team. This isn’t random—it’s a deliberate strategy. By associating themselves with legitimate local institutions, the Families embed themselves in community life. They’re not just criminals; they’re fans, neighbors, people with the same loyalties as ordinary citizens.

The Sports Merchandise Connection

Different Families sets support different teams. The Forum Gangsters may support the San Andreas Magnetics, as seen in Lamar’s attire. The Davis Neighborhood Families support the Los Santos Dust Devils hockey team, with members wearing Dust Devils clothing featuring the team’s logo.

This specialization serves multiple purposes. It allows sets to distinguish themselves while maintaining the unifying green color. It creates natural affinities with fans of those teams—potential recruits, customers, or allies. And it provides cover: a group of men wearing matching sports jerseys looks like a fan club, not a gang.

The Real-World Parallel

This detail reflects real-world gang practices. In Los Angeles, gangs often adopt the colors and logos of local sports teams—the Dodgers’ blue for some Crip sets, the Raiders’ silver and black for others. By incorporating this detail, Rockstar adds authenticity to the Families while commenting on how deeply gang culture permeates ordinary life.

X. The Real-World Counterparts: Bloods, Crips, and the Color Switch

The relationship between the Families and real-world gangs is complex and often misunderstood.

The Bloods and Crips Question

The Grove Street Families are primarily based on the Bloods, despite their green color. This seems counterintuitive—the Bloods are famous for wearing red. However, early wiki edits reveal that Rockstar deliberately switched the secondary colors of the Crips and Bloods for the game. The Families (green) are based on the Bloods; the Ballas (purple) are based on the Crips.

This color switch serves several purposes. It distinguishes the game’s gangs from real-world organizations, avoiding direct imitation while maintaining the underlying dynamics. It also allows for the distinctive green-versus-purple visual contrast that makes gang battles immediately readable.

The Lime Piru Connection

One early wiki revision notes that the Grove Street Families may be specifically based on the Lime Piru Bloods, a real Bloods set in Compton. This would explain the green color—”Lime” suggests green, and the Piru sets are historically significant within Bloods history. The name “Grove Street,” however, may derive from Grape Street, which is actually a Crip set. This mixing of influences creates a fictional gang that feels authentic without being a direct copy of any real organization.

The Seville Boulevard Parallels

Fan analysis has drawn specific parallels between San Andreas gangs and real-life Compton sets :

Seville Boulevard Families = Waterfront Piru, Ghost Town Bloods
Grove Street Families = Various sets including 151 Original Block Piru, Tree Top Piru
Temple Drive Families = Westside Village Stone Bloods

These connections add depth to the game’s world-building, rooting fictional conflicts in real gang geography.

The Tree Top Piru Possibility

The real-world Spruce Street in Compton is occupied by the Tree Top Piru set of the Bloods. Given that Grove Street in the HD Universe is likely influenced by Spruce Street, this strengthens the Families’ Bloods connection. The irony, of course, is that by GTA V, Grove Street is occupied by the Ballas—meaning the Bloods-inspired gang has lost its founding territory to the Crips-inspired rival.

XI. The Unanswered Questions: What We Still Don’t Know

After nearly two decades of Families lore across two universes, certain questions remain unanswered.

Who Founded the Grove Street Families?

The origins of the Grove Street Families are never explored. When was the gang formed? By whom? What was its original purpose? The game’s lore describes them as “one of the oldest street gangs in Los Santos,” possibly predating the Ballas. But the specifics—the founding members, the early years, the first wars—remain a blank space.

What Happened to Brian Johnson’s Grave?

Unlike Beverly Johnson, whose death and funeral are central to the plot, Brian Johnson’s grave is never shown. Where is CJ’s younger brother buried? Do Sweet and CJ ever visit? The absence is striking—a deliberate silence that may reflect the family’s unwillingness to confront the tragedy, or perhaps a clue that the circumstances of Brian’s death are even darker than implied.

Who Was “The Boss” of Carson Avenue?

The mysterious leader of the Carson Avenue Families, known only as “The Boss,” is never identified. Is this a former Grove Street OG? A shadowy figure operating from prison? A title passed down through generations? The lack of information is itself a mystery—one that GTA Online has never resolved.

Why Did the Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard Sets Disappear?

The HD Universe Families have entirely different sets from their 3D Universe counterparts. What happened to Temple Drive and Seville Boulevard? Were they absorbed into other sets? Did they change their names? Were they destroyed in the gang wars that followed San Andreas? The transition between universes has erased them entirely.

Is CJ Still Alive in the HD Universe?

The most personal question of all: does Carl Johnson still live in the HD Universe? Lamar’s statement about OGs becoming wealthy CEOs suggests yes—CJ may be out there, somewhere, living the life he always deserved. The Easter eggs—the bike riders, the phone calls, the lookalikes—all hint at his continued presence. But Rockstar has never confirmed anything, leaving CJ’s fate to the imagination of players who loved him.

Conclusion: The Legend of Grove Street

The Families—and the Grove Street Families in particular—are more than just a gang in a video game. They represent something deeper: the struggle for community against forces that seek to destroy it, the pain of betrayal, the power of loyalty, and the possibility of redemption. From the crack-addled streets of 1992 to the mythologized legend of 2013, their story is the story of Los Santos itself.

The theories surrounding the Families—about their fallen leaders, their splintered sets, their mysterious bosses, and their ultimate fate—reflect the depth of engagement that Grand Theft Auto continues to inspire. Players have spent decades piecing together clues, analyzing dialogue, and constructing elaborate histories to explain the green gang’s journey across two universes.

Perhaps that is the Families’ greatest legacy: not just as characters in a story, but as symbols of something real. They represent every community that has fought against external forces and internal divisions. They represent every leader who tried to keep their people safe despite impossible odds. They represent every kid who grew up on streets like Grove Street, wondering if there was a way out.

In the HD Universe, Grove Street is Ballas territory. The green is gone, replaced by purple. The OGs have moved on, become wealthy, become legends. But the street remains. The cul-de-sac still ends in the same place. And if you visit at the right moment, if you look closely enough, you might see three men on bicycles, riding away, disappearing around a corner—ghosts from a past that refuses to stay buried.

Grove Street, for life. Even when the life is over.